Full Day Kindergarten Coming to Dearborn Schools
When is a full day of kindergarten school class better than a half day of class?
When the state of Michigan says it is and says it will reduce by half the amount of per student funding it will provide school districts who decide otherwise.
But is it really that much better to have 5-year-old kids in class for eight hours a day?
We will soon find out as the Dearborn School District races toward making the state-required switch to a full day of school for kindergarten kids, which could occur as early as the fall of 2009 here. Not making the switch means the potential loss of millions of dollars in state school funding. It won’t be an easy change as Dearborn school officials are now discovering, trying to grapple with the challenges associated with a longer school days.
The change is part of new state rule set to be implemented in the fall of 2009 for “developmental kindergarten” classes and in the fall of 2010 for traditional kindergarten classes. While the Dearborn district doesn’t offer developmental kindergarten, a special committee is looking at what it would take to begin the longer school day in the fall of 2009 rather than waiting until fall 2010.
Among the challenges Dearborn faces:
- Some schools lack the space required to operate full-day kindergarten classrooms
- Deciding which elementary schools will convert to full day kindergarten classes and which ones will not
- Having to hire more teachers to handle the longer day
- Additional materials
School districts across Michigan are facing similar challenges with the new rule. School districts have the option of not changing anything and continuing with half days for kindergarten kids. But doing so means the loss of millions of dollars in state funding per child. Under the new rules, the state will reduce by half the amount it pays per child in a school district if the child doesn’t attend a full day of kindergarten school.
For the Dearborn school district, which has about 1,000 kindergarten students at about $8,000 per child, not making the change would result in a loss of some $4 million annually.
The change to a longer school day for kindergarten kids already has parents and teachers lining up on both side of this issue and has the potential to get ugly. While some parents like the idea, an equal number of parents and teachers do not. As one Dearborn school official told us, “this is going to get very interesting.”
Indeed it will.
February 11th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Deep, I’ve been a regular reader of your site for three years now and I don’t usually comment, but this latest story has forced me to. Forcing kindergarten kids to attend a full day of school is wrong. Many simply can’t put in a full day at that age. Look at us, we turned out fine with just a half day in our first year of school. Our district needs to do what is right for the kids rather than focusing on the dollars the state is holding ransom.
February 11th, 2009 at 8:56 am
This is a tough and divisive issue to resolve. Based upon Deep’s story it appears no clear-cut majority or parents or residents will be pleased.
While funding is certainly almost always an issue for our cash strapped school districts, one has to wonder if a full day of school will really help these young children. I don’t have the answers to this issue and I may be wrong, but I think it would be wiser of the State of Michigan to be far more concerned with funding childrens classes and learning in higher grades.
I’m not belittling the importance of kindergarten in the development of children. But so many of our schools and other schools across the state have older children struggling, especially in middle and high schools.
Since other than college, high school performance is what most of these childrens early employers take into consideration and IMHO is far more crucial to their adult life, I’m not sure a full day of kindergarden will make that much of a difference. Other than remembering riding boys around on a bicycle with a briefcase and coming home to a large dollhouse where girls were there making us our fake coffee or lunch, I cannot really remember all that much about kindergarden. Can you?
February 11th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Oops, I meant boys riding around on a bicycle, not riding boys. Boy talk about embarassing. LMAO
February 11th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
When my daughter was in kindergarten at the late St. Alphonsus elementary school in Dearborn in 1980, and I was the only “working outside the home mom, ” the school had an experiment called “all day kindergarten”. So many parents signed up for all day instead of the usual half day class that they never went back to the (less expensive) half day schedule.
In retrospect, a full day of kindergarten didn’t seem to hurt the students…maybe because they weren’t yanked out of class a mere two or three hours after arriving there..or maybe it was just the excellent teacher (who was paid about 1/3 of the amount paid to unionized public school teachers).
February 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I’m not surprised to hear that teachers are complaining about having to work a full day. This is a good move.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Please, RobertB, if you don’t know what you’re talking about don’t say anything. They already most likely put in a full day teaching 20-30 children with morning and afternoon half day sessions.
Plus they probably work at home in the evenings or after school getting lesson plans set up and what state guidelines those plans meet. With older kids there’s grading and after school assistance.
Teachers work as hard or harder than most. The good put a lot of work and emotion into their job and it can take a toll on them. Dearborn has plenty of those teachers.
As for half days vs. full days for kindergarten students. I don’t think it will make much of a difference, educationally. And the need to hire extra teachers for kindergarten could be better spent elsewhere. Although, RobertB probably sees nothing wrong with sticking 40-60 screaming kids together all day so you wouldn’t have to hire any new teachers.
February 11th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
RobertB-Kdg teachers DO work a full day. In fact, they teach 2 half day classes and have twice the students, twice the records, and twice the conferences of everyone else.
Michael, a great wealth of research is available to show that dollars spent in early childhood education (including K) causes less expense to taxpayers in the long haul. A quality kindergarten experience can help minimize troubles in HS. I know that sounds contradictory, but as a Kdg teacher it is something I’ve researched in depth.
I do not teach in Dearborn, but I do teach full-day kindergarten. It is NOT your kindergarten or your parents kindergarten. My students leave K reading and doing addition and subtraction (Michigan requirements on those math points). Needless to say many of us don’t recall the value of K simply because K didn’t LOOK like it does now. As I said, I teach FDK and I wouldn’t have it any other way. My kids make tremendous strides that are simply not seen in children who go from Half day K to day care. It is HIGH TIME Dearborn makes this move. Almost makes me want to teach here.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
LifelongDbnRes,
Since my time in kindergarden was so long ago, many things have changed and since you have the experience, I’ll trust your judgment call on this one for the time being.
The following questions are meant to further my knowledge and understanding of this issue, therefore I hope you can answer them even if you understandably don’t feel comfortable revealing your ID or school:
Do you teach in a school district that is like Dearborn so that we can compare apples to apples? Does your school district have the same English learning challenges that Dearborn has? Either way, do you think having an FDK with children this age would be too early to immerse many of our English challenged students into mastering English? If not why not and if so how much quicker do you think it might mainstream these children?
Thanks for your input.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
With 11 million dollars in the red can we afford more teachers? In fact, it looks like there will be cuts in kindergarten programs throughout Dearborn so the state will have to make up the difference or step aside.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Spend 1 hour with a 5 year old and you will see why they need a full day of K. They are full of knowledge that has to be channeled in the right direction and by the right person who is qualified for the job.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Scarecrow,
That is also an excellent point that needs addressing – with our budget deficit can DPS afford this now and why is the state implementing this during this terrible recession further punishing schools which are mostly struggling as it is???
Donna you’re probably right and I hope LifelongDbnRes who is also a teacher answers when he/she has the chance.
February 12th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Michael,
Unfortunately my district is not like Dearborn in terms of apples to apples, but it IS low-income (as several of our schools are) and a public school. It is a charter school, which for those who are unaware, is a public school that is relatively independent. We follow all of the same rules, regulations, and standards as “regular” public districts like Dearborn, but we are governed by a board of directors rather than a community. It is free for my students to attend and we do NOT get to pick who we admit. Any parent who applies can get their child in. I like the less bureaucracy part of it. We have won awards for being one of the top charter schools in the state of Michigan. There are bad ones for sure, but I am fortunate to work at a great charter school.
We do not have ELL students in my school, but I think that it is absolutely NOT too early to immerse kids in English. Research shows (and logic tells us) that the YOUNGER kids are, the better and faster they acquire a new language because they are still acquiring their primary language. It is very easy to do simultaneously. That is why it is easy for young kids to become bilingual if family members speak a second language, much more so than someone who marries into the family for example. I think that given the right supports these kids will acquire English more quickly than if only in a half day program. It may be an opportunity to have them in the bldg longer and do more pull out or push in assistance with the language. The more you are exposed to the language you are learning, the better you do. More time at school=more time in English=greater rate of success. Think about it like a vacation to a country where you don’t know the language. If you are in France for 3 weeks, you’re going to pick things up. If you are in kindergarten all day for a school year, you will make progress you wouldn’t if you were there for half that time.
For those who say the day is too long for kids that young, I understand the frustration. Child development is always a major concern for me. That said, I believe that if the children are just going from Kdg to daycare or daycare to Kdg, at least let’s get them in an environment that is more conducive to learning than daycare. So few are going home to stay-at-home parents who give them enrichment activities these days that half day K just isn’t optimal. We can teach all day in a way that is developmentally appropriate. We can have fun and learn in age-appropriate ways. It doesn’t have to be workbooks or sitting at desks for hours. They are SO ready to learn and they LOVE learning. It’s time that we encourage it all day long.
February 12th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Easy Paulie. No one ever said teachers don’t work hard. They do but they also get more days off, vacations and summers off. Tell me what other jobs get that kind of treatment plus benefits. I will tell you. No one. So to the teachers already complaining about this in Dearborn, and they are, I say suck it up or get out. A full day is needed. Other districts already do it with great success and Dearborn should, too.
February 12th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
LifelongDbnRes says:
Thank you so much for responding in such detail so many of us can see the point of view of one whose been there. You sound like an intelligent, caring and compassionate teacher who loves what she’s doing. The children you are teaching are forunate to have you as a role model.
I only hope that in this terrible recession cash strapped school districts can afford to consider your suggestions. My best to you…
February 12th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Thanks Michael. I’m considering throwing my hat into the ring if Dearborn does go full day so we shall see. Thank you for the kind words.
One of my other concerns as I think more about Dearborn transitioning to full day right now is not just the cost in terms of staffing, but also in terms of materials. Kindergarten classrooms have always been rather specialized. While we have changed from the traditional play-based kindergartens over the years, we still require more supplies. Center materials, pretend materials, art supplies…all of this equipment that currently serves 2 half day classes in 1 room will now have to double to meet the needs at the same level we currently do with 2 rooms. My guess is we will be unable given the current financial situation to do this and teachers will have to find ways to share these materials. We’ll have to wait and see.
Another thought—-are they considering transitioning some schools for 09-10 and others in 10-11 to make it more smooth and more cost-effective? This is certainly a multi-pronged issue that is not easily solved in any way. The budget is tenuous as it is.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:45 am
LifelongDbnRes says:
Perhaps I’ve been out of school to long to understand what it is that you say should be considered for transitioning. Could you either expand on the question or rephrase it? Thank you…
February 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Mike get a life — is that all you do, is want to see your name daily on this board? I understand you don’t even live here give us a break, and look into your own City — we are tired of you.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Albano moved back here quite a while ago Hassen and many including myself like his contributions
February 13th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Your right Louie Michael is a productive member of the community and I know for a fact that he lives in the City of Dearborn. Better get your facts straight before you post them Hassen.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Hassen – That is just RUDE – I have always enjoyed reading this blog and enjoy Mr. Albano’s comments among all the others.
As for full day K – I am all for it. I wish DPS had this when my children were in K a few years ago. Becker School has full K and I know some parents who applied for School of Choice but were all turned down. A few if them were DPS Teachers. I hope this is implemented by the time my 15 month old gets ready for K! Otherwise its 1/2 Daycare and 1/2 school.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
By transitioning I mean moving them from Half day Kdg to full day. Doing so will be a transition from one format to another. I’m wondering if they might take some schools and have them actually pilot the full day K so they can tweak as needed before all of the schools do it.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Hassen,
You should get together with Pay to Play and get your own site. If your gonna post at least post something worth reading. If you don’t like Mike’s posting don’t read them. And he is a Dearborn Citizen, and he graduated from Edsel Ford (thunder chicken).
I also agree full day Kindergarden would be a great thing, I to wish they had this when my kids were young, I think it will help them adjusting to being around other children. I think the teachers that teach kindergarden for a full day should get paid more also.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Is it my understanding that Dearborn teachers who currently teach half-day kindergarten are paid less than those who teach full-day students?
If they are paid the same rate as if they taught a full day, why would we need to increase their pay?
February 14th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Teachers who teach half day K teach TWO CLASSES each day, an AM and a PM, thus making it a full day of teaching, thus making it equal pay. No pay increase is needed, however more teachers will be needed because you can’t have a class of 50-60 kindergartners all day. So hiring more teachers will cause the budget increase.
February 14th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
After reading the expanded article Deep wrote in today’s Press and Guide it will be interesting to see how the school district is going to find enough classrooms to have full day kindergarden classes when the current classrooms were split into two 1/2 day classes. What will be more interesting is that the article also stated that one option DPS is considering is having one school as a kindergarden only school, which I’m not sure some would be happy with.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:39 am
With due respect to LifelongDbnRes, I disagree.
Many adults “think” they know what’s best for children—but a key problem is that some do not know when too much is too much. And this is too much to heap upon children of this age.
I see no “better educating” of a five-/six-year-old kindergarten student when: 1) Not all of them can perform up to the same, accepted standard; 2) Their concentration abilities on vital learning (what learning isn’t vital?) aren’t particularly strong; 3) The schedule is unnecessary (whereas, with the following years, the age- and grade-appropriate educational instruction of the four key Academics—Language Arts, Math, Science, and Social Studies—are better- or best-implemented, -studied, and -learned).
This prolonged schedule for children serves no practical, beneficial use and, in effect, robs them of a year in life where their time should be freer and fulfilling. After all, a year goes by fast—and waiting one more for first grade, the beginning point at which a full-day school schedule has been long established (and by then which a child becomes better in adapting), isn’t much of a wait. It arrives soon enough.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Dave, I do agree that many adults do not know when to stop and when it is truly too much. That is why it is imperative that when we make the move to full-day kindergarten (as we will be required to do by law whether now or in 2010), that we have kindergarten teachers in place who have specialized early childhood training. With that you can come one step closer to ensuring that the teachers you hire know the appropriate teaching practices to meet the needs of young children.
Here’s my devil’s advocate argument for you Dave—if a child is in day care all day already, how much harm can full-day kindergarten do?
No realistic well-educated teacher expects all students to perform up to a “same, accepted” standard. Some will simply be unable to. That is the case in ALL grades. We as teachers work our behinds off to help our students achieve the best that they possibly can. And Dave, I invite you to come check out what my kindergartners can do. They ENJOY their successes and have enthusiastic minds, ready to learn. Who are we to rob them of the opportunity to do so in a more “official” way? If we give them the materials to learn through play and directed learning, we are helping them learn to be successful throughout life.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I have read that Dearborn Public schools do have some full day kinnny garden classes for some students in some schools. If that is true, does anyone know how it is or is not working and what schools they are?
If it is implemented in all other elementrary schools, my worry is how is a school district that has been in the red for multi-millions for 8 years in a row going to afford it knowing that the state will only partially fund it?
And since we know the state and feds have been total failures when it comes to education or pretty much running anything for that matter, why would we want to trust their judgement?
February 15th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
The basic problem of all of this is that the state isn’t partially funding full-day Kindergarten. My understanding is that the state has funded kindergarten the same way as every other grade level, but school districts use the “extra money” saved by having the kids only there for half the day towards other grade levels and supplies (generally the more expensive HS programs). It’s not that the state is going to partially fund it, it’s that we’ve been robbing Peter to pay Paul for many years.
George, which judgement of theirs are you suggesting we trust? I’m guessing the benefits of full-day kindergarten? Research proves the benefits of early childhood education without any input from state or federal lawmakers.
For those looking for more information, please see the following references:
Cryan, John, and others. June 1992. “Successful Outcomes of Full-Day Kindergarten: More Positive Behavior and Increased Achievement in the Years After.” Early Childhood Research Quarterly 7 (2): 187-203. EJ 450 525.
http://www.ericdigests.org/1996-1/full.htm
http://www.ksde.org/portals/0/research%20reports/full_day_kindergarten.pdf
February 15th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
After reading the numerous replies on here and from an experienced teacher like LifelongDbnRes, further reading in some newspapers that DPS already has some schools with full day kindergardens and having so many others tell me they approve of it, it sounds like it may be a good idea.
But I think an even bigger question is what George asks above and I wonder why in the worst of economic times with the feds, states, cities and even school districts (even DPS) being broke, why did Gov. Grahholm pick this time to implement this program and how does she expect overly strapped school districts to pay for this?
February 15th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Sorry teacher, I was posting at the same time as you were.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Lifelong Dbn Res, I’m not questioning the necessity of the full day kinny garden casue it makes sense to me. Even though you state that “research proves the benefits of early childhood education without any input from state of federal lawmakers”, I”m questioning who exactly is it that did the research so others can form their own judgements about there qualifecations. And if the state is not involved in this, then why is the state dictating this to school districts? Those are my only questions.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Michael, the timing is as questionable to me as it is to you. I think we are overdue for this change and I understand that the governor is ballyhooing education as the solution to our problems, and yet she continues to cut general education and higher education alike.
Another interesting insight here is that kindergarten is STILL not mandatory in the state of Michigan.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
George,
Teachers sources are listen in the links below her earlier posting.
Teacher,
This just gets more interesting that we now learn that Michigan does not make kindergarten mandatory. .
So the state mandates that school districts that choose to make the investment of millions yearly for 1/2 day kindergarten now also requires them to soon go to full day kindergartens. And typical of government, the state will not fully fund them at a time school districts are bleeding red ink.
Then even more ludicrious, the school districts that do not offer kindergarten at all won’t have to worry about financing full day kindergarten classes because it’s not mandatory they offer ANY kindergarten classes at all.
If this isn’t an oxymoron I don’t know what is.
February 16th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Well, I believe that they have to offer kindergarten or risk losing funding. But it is not mandatory that everyone attends. That still doesn’t make sense given the amount of material teachers are required to cover under the Grade Level Content Expectations. Where it also begins to matter is in issues of truancy–there is no such thing as a truant Kindergartner.
February 16th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Teacher,
Cities that do not offer kindergarten and therefore do not accept government funding will have no liability in this other than the terrible fact they’re not helping prepare children of that age for their future.
Parents that do not send their children to kindergarten or that have children who choose to be truants have no fear of any penalty cause it’s not mandatory that these children attend kindergarten.
So it leads one to assume that teachers that take these same truant children into their first grade classes have an even more difficult job in bringing them up to speed. Teacher could you provide some stats or info on that issue, if it is an issue?
As I keep reading the wisdom and input from the Teacher it further makes me realize that state governmental leaders are just completely out of touch with what the needs of young children are in a rapidly changing society. We’d be much better off if we allowed teachers to vote and implement programs they know to work since teachers are our ‘soldiers’ in education and are far more qualified to make these calls than our state leaders and perhaps even more qualified to make these decisions than our administrators with many who just seem to be creative enough to come up with logical, cost-effective solutions that work to benefit children.
Maybe I’m way off base and I’m sure I’ll take any input from Teacher seriously, but those are my thoughts.
February 16th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Michael, thank you for your understanding of how challenging it is to be a teacher in these times. The government really has no clue about what is most effective and yet they always feel capable of making those decisions that affect our classrooms in immense ways.
I don’t have any stats available about first graders, particularly because the VAST MAJORITY of parents choose to send their children to Kdg first. They might hold their child off a year due to birthdate questions (late Nov. birthdays in Michigan) but most send their children to kdg before first grade. I do have some colleagues who teach first and had children in their class that had not previously attended school. This was incredibly challenging for them because they essentially had to help the student two years worth of academic material in one school year. This is not mentioning the social skills and basic school procedures that had to be learned as well. It is not necessarily an issue because most average citizens are unaware that kindergarten isn’t mandatory, but if more parents find out or choose to utilize this loophole, it could quickly become an issue.